Elizabeth: Hello David.

David: Hi Elizabeth.

Eliz:
David, can you tell us what project Mind is.

David:
Sure, with pleasure. Project Mind is a project, the intention of which is, to bring science under the purview of spirituality. We take the point of view that science is the greatest spiritual challenge that man has ever undertaken. And we're claiming that science really isn't done in the way that it could be - that it could be intensified and the results of science could become more holistic than they are at present.

Eliz:
David, what do you mean by saying that science is the greatest spiritual adventure of humanity?

David:
Well, its a spiritual truism that the greatest lights are to be revealed from the lowest place. The densest part of our existence, presumably, is the world of physical matter. And that's the place that really is most resistant to the penetration of our mind. However, we are rewarded when we do contemplate and we do investigate matter in that every new thing that we discover enables us to have a new degree of freedom or, if you like, eliminate restriction where, before, we were stopped. In other words, a thousand years ago we were scratching the ground for a subsistence living and, today, all kinds of things are possible to us that weren't before because we've understood, partially, the nature of matter. This gives us all kinds of new possibilities to which we give the name "technology."

Eliz:
Do you feel as though technology, so far, has created more compassion or less greed and fear?

David:
I wouldn't say that and that's because I feel that science isn't doing the job that it was really meant to do.

Eliz:
Aha. Ok, what was it meant to do?

David:
Well, I think from the very beginning it was clear to those who were investigating the world of physical matter, that there were unlimited possibilities and unlimited blessings that could come to man. I think that we have all kinds of problems coming from science & technology that really came as a surprise. People put a great deal of hope and faith in the products of the mind and expected us to have all kinds of wonderful possibilities. And, in principle, they were right. We do have wonderful possibilities but they seem to be working against us.

It seems to me the reason they're working against us can be looked at from different points of view. First of all, the way science is done raises questions. If you think about science, on the one hand it's laboratories and instruments and methodologies. But that's just the body of science. The spirit of science - the motor driving science - really is that "spark" of vision that a scientist has that brings a new idea down into this world. Then he runs to the laboratory and verifies his vision with the tools that are there. Now the problem with science, today, as we see it, is that the inspiration comes, precisely, as a "spark" of inspiration - a "eureka" spark they call it.

And that's all about creativity and I'm sure many of your listeners are up on the various theories on creativity that exist today. But what characterizes them all is the recognition of the effort to saturate ourselves with the elements of the problem, a certain amount of incubation, maybe leaving the problem aside or having a dream or whatever it is, and then the spark of realization comes and something new opens, a new possibility happens. The problem is that it comes as a spark, and a spark is restricted light. And restricted light, for instance in the framework of Kabbalah, indicates what's called "Klipa" or the "worlds of impurity." So, what it boils down to is that, in principle, the whole body of the human, made in the image of the Creator. could become an instrument of vision. We could light up with vision, in a state of creativity.

Eliz:
I want to slow it down for a minute, to see if I understand that what you're actually saying is that that spark, instead of being a sharp sort of pointed little area into our whole noosphere, can be expanded so that the light actually expands out into a much greater portion of our beingness. Is that what I hear you saying?

David:
I think that's what I'm saying...

Eliz:
Ok.

David:
When you speak of the noosphere, you're talking about a much larger arena. I'm talking about within the human being for starters because, after all, we are all part of one soul. This process has to start somewhere. Everything has to start with someone who shows initiative and who is a pioneer. And we call these people "the pioneers of Accelerated Thought." So the idea is that, instead of having a spark coming through your head say, of a new idea, the whole body, in principle, because we're made in the image of the Creator can become an instrument of vision. We're not a piece of inanimate meat. We're really alive inside. And we could be a lot more alive under certain conditions. And it's this kind of effort that brings us to what we call "a state of higher creativity" or, if you like, "Accelerated Thought" which is a term specific to our foundation.

Eliz:
Can you explain what you mean by alive?

David:
Sure. I said before that it's a spiritual truism that the highest lights are to be revealed from the lowest place. And the thing that makes us most alive really is when we are helping others.

Eliz:
Oh, thank you.

David:
In other words, we receive from above in order to give below. The lower down you go, the lower the level of existence to which you are willing to dedicate the energy that you are now able to modulate, determines, in principle, how high you can reach above. And, really. we're not granted the highest vibrations, the finest vibrations, until, in parallel, we are engaging ourself with an effort, call it a "super effort" if you like, to contemplate the things that are hardest to contemplate. And the denser the material we're talking about, the harder the effort, and therefore the more help we need from above and therefore the more valid our prayers to receive that help from above - that vision that we require. Because in the final analysis, what really counts is that vision with which we are inhabited because that vision enables us to give it a form in physical matter and that form that we invest in physical matter becomes a technology that frees us of a restriction that restricted us before.

Eliz:
David, that was so beautiful. I'm almost crying. Can you please explain to us how Project Mind would like to facilitate this spark and the scientific... Tell us what Project Mind is.

David:
Well, our biggest ambition is to find people who have, in principle, uncompromised in themselves as yet, the possibility of making this kind of ultimate effort. To bring them to a place in Israel that is not yet constructed (although we do have architectural plans prepared) and to allow this person to give himself over completely to this effort. There are a number of aspects. First of all, finding these people, recognizing their fundamental heroism and empowering them to do what they have to do. Freeing them of their day to day worries, at least for a time, in order for them to consecrate themselves to this effort and providing them with an environment where they can do it without being aggressed. Society, by definition almost, is not favorable to higher states of consciousness.

Eliz:
Right. For sure.

David:
And a person who goes into such a state....the more active you become inside, almost of necessity, the more passive you become outside, especially if you're talking about something which is a first time effort or something that is not a spiritual process that's been developed over many years where its a balanced thing. We're not talking about a balanced thing here, we're talking about something that is very radical. And that's usually how scientific insights come. They don't come as a result of spiritual practice. They come as a result of a very unique kind of effort, a radical effort.

Eliz:
A concentration?

David:
You can call it "concentration." You can call it "meditation," because that's what meditation, in principle, is. Although there are many forms of meditation and of opening up to something higher in order to produce something here lower down. But in the final analysis, I think meditation was meant to be "meditation on something" so that we become the thing that we meditate. Inside ourselves, potentially, we're a kind of cyberspace that can reproduce or "reveal" if you like a reality. But in order for that to happen we have to really look at the thing, we have to look at the world in front of us and say - "What is it that I am seeing"? "What are its qualities"? And allow those qualities to start to inhabit us, and let this mind that the body really is, begin to work, and begin to extrapolate, begin to process. In computer language they call it "massive parallel processing." There's no greater computer than this human body but we really haven't given it a chance yet. And so in the project, when we set it up, we want to allow people the opportunity of realizing this potential. I guess the next question you're going to ask me is who are the people who have this potential. Why can't we all do it.

Eliz:
I realize that some of us have developed synapses that are a little more advanced than others. There's still as far as I know 10 billion cells in the human brain that are unused and what we're looking for, I assume what you're talking about, are ways of utilizing all of that intelligence and so forth. So I'm sort of interested in how. So, suppose we'll get to who in a little while. Suppose you get this person and she or he is in Israel and in a protected place one assumes (because most of the media reports about Israel here are pretty horrifying) and they have the opportunity, through Project Mind, of actually expanding their consciousness, and I think that's what you're talking about isn't it. How? What are they going to do? Are they going to sit in a room and think or what are they going to do?

David:
The first thing we have to understand is why it is possible. And therefore we have to look at why it's possible for some people and not for others. In principle, it should be possible for all of us because we're all made in the image of the Creator and therefore we all, in principle, have an unlimited creative capacity. Because, after all, we're supposed to be trying to emulate the Creator. So some people, we're saying, have this capacity uncompromised within themselves. What is this capacity derived from? First and foremost it derives from the faith that it's possible. You wouldn't flick the light switch on if you didn't think there was a good chance of the light going on. You wouldn't expend the effort. It's the same thing with anything. Especially with this level of contemplation. You don't invest yourself in this level of effort if you don't have, deep down inside yourself, the belief that it could bring some kind of result. So we're talking about people whose faith in unlimited possibilities has not been compromised. Now, when we're all little children, in principle, we had that faith.

Eliz:
That's beautiful.

David:
We start off with that faith.

Eliz:
Right. Life can present us with everything.

David:
Trouble is, by the time we reach the age of 4, more or less (and we're protected up until then), we're told stories - fairy tales - telling us that good always prevails over evil and that the prince and the princess live happily ever after. Usually around the age of 4 - the age of reason - we look around ourselves and we end up seeing things which seem to be incompatible with the perfect world that our parents have sold us up until then. And in our naivety, when we go to them when we see something that is a little bit shocking, we're hoping that they'll explain it away for us. They, of course, take advantage of the opportunity to say, "well listen its time to tell you that there is no Santa Claus," or that "life is not a bowl of cherries," or the modern version "life is hard and then you die." Of course they don't realize that this little child does not and didn't need to have defensive mechanisms and neuroses. They're not fragmented inside. The child receives this hit with the whole of himself or with the whole of herself. It's a devastating thing that I would think most of us forget about. However, there are those children who when they're hit with this disillusionment, when this whole beautiful world of theirs is attacked by the highest authority in their life, the father or the mother, for some reason they find the inner resource, a little bit like Abraham in the bible, to resist the authority of the parent and to take a kind of autistic step backward and say, "no, I will not believe in a world of compromise, I continue to believe in the fairy tale world of unlimited possibilities, of a beautiful world, of a world that is all good." And these people go into life, if you like, marching to a different drummer. They hear a different rhythm. They're not like the rest of us. And you meet in life people who are just different. Sometimes its very difficult to define how they're different. But deep down inside what makes them different and what causes them to resist the temptation of conforming where maybe the rest of us do conform to the demands of authority, is that they have this deep abiding belief that there is no limit to what is possible. And some of these people become scientists and they become conversant with the language of science and competent in the field. And they are the ones who, in potential, can fill this role. Not because they have a potential different from the rest of us, but because that potential remains uncompromised or less compromised, which means that they maintain a connection with the core, the deepest part of their essence, where the greatest desires and potential for human will exist. That's what we need to mobilize this unprecedented effort of Accelerated Thought which will permit them to penetrate the obscurity of matter, receive the help from above, and reveal new possibilities in this world that will free us from the restrictions that we have now. And do it again, as I said before, in a holistic way which will not carry the dangers that now exist.

Eliz:
Before we go any further, David, would you please tell people, and then we'll repeat it again, how to get in touch with Project Mind.

David:
Sure. What I can do is, for starters, give you the email address. That's becoming a more common form of communication. We have a very easy address to remember. Project Mind Foundation - pmf@usa.net. That's the whole address. Or, if you remember my name, my name is David Devor. So my address, my personal address, is devor@projectmind.org

Eliz:
David, was this a sort of high moment for you that you came up with this remarkable idea of Accelerated Thought?

David:
That's a loaded question, because I think you read my book. In Chapter 2, I have about a 20 page autobiography where I really tell the whole story of my life very concisely. What happened is, when I was a little boy around the age of 4, my grandfather died. He was my best friend, he was very close to me, I loved him dearly. And this was incomprehensible to me. And I asked my mother what happened. She explained that he died. I said, "What does that mean"? And my mother said to me, "it means going to sleep and never waking again." Now the only dark spot in my life was going to sleep. You know parents have a tendency to get rid of their kids early, to put them to bed early. If you're full of vitality and you're going to fall asleep, as little children sometimes do, you actually experience the process of losing control of yourself, of losing control of the connections to the levers of your arms, your legs, your members, your voice. It can be a terrifying experience to see yourself loose consciousness, to see yourself loose life, as a little child. And this was a terror for me. So this was the worst possible consequence that could happen to any person. And so I became really frantic how such a horrible fate could befall my wonderful grandfather. In order to mollify me, my mother said, "no, no, it didn't just happen to your grandfather, don't worry, it happens to everyone." Well, then I got hysterical. And I remember it like it happened yesterday.

Eliz:
I'll bet.

David:
And, I say to her "even me?" And of course by now, I'm out of my mind. And she says, "yes." And then she says the worst thing of all. She says, "yes, even me." When my mother said it of herself, I froze cold. And I looked at her and what I saw was what 30 years later, if you like, I learned was what "waking sleep" or what "consensus trance" is all about. I saw that my mother was in a different world. As a little boy, it was natural for me to think that she understood everything about me, that she knew all my inner feelings and emotions and thoughts. And here I saw I was all on my own. She didn't have any cognizance of this terror that was inside of me and why it was there. Because at least our religion, the Jewish religion, takes a very very clear position. Life is the good and death is the bad. It's very very simple and we're told to choose life. You know when we take a drink we say, "Le Chayim" - "To Life". It's really the highest value and any ritual can be forgone and any precept can be transgressed if its in the interest of saving life. So really this is what happened to me. I saw this and, in that moment as a four year old child, I said to myself, I really vowed to myself, that I would spend the rest of my life trying to wipe death off the surface of the earth. And that's how I got started.

Eliz:
Thank you very much for sharing that. When you get, eventually, and I feel sure that the vision you have is so clear and sharp that it's going to happen at some point in time-space, that a person or a group of people get together in some kind of perhaps familial monastery or something, protected space, to concentrate on getting into the darkest of the dark, which is what you're talking about, and illuminating it - are there subjects that you have thought of various areas as starters, or is this just a wide open kind of field. For instance, there's some people who are into chaos and the patterns that come out of it, or the patterns and how they resolve into chaos. Would it be somebody who is already a scientist in a particular area and would simply push that area to limits that haven't been discovered yet, or do you have any idea?

David:
In terms of what has to be discovered, I don't think we'd want to restrict that in any way. You have to remember there aren't going to be all that many people who want to be pioneers in pushing themselves to that radical limit. After it's shown that it's possible and we've established a new standard for creativity in science, then the second wave of people will be a much larger one. So we can't really pick and choose in the beginning. What we're really looking for is anyone who has any concern with revealing something in the physical world, who has this potential, has this conviction that they have this creative force in themselves, and they can reach down that far and light up, if you like, like a Christmas tree.

Eliz:
How is it coming, David, as far as financial structure. I'm sure that you need around you a cadre of people who are sympathetic and can help you to spread this.

David:
The Project Mind Foundation, today, has a little over 40 people in 11 countries who are committed to this agenda and want to get it going. We have not started with fundraising for the simple reason that we have not yet found a formula that the granting organizations are able to relate to. It's very difficult to talk about this in a way that people won't think that you're off the wall. Remember that we're trying to connect, in society, the farthest edges, just the same as we're trying to do in the scientific pursuit - the physical and the spiritual. Also here, when you go to the religious establishment for instance and try to get their support, they find it hard to understand why you think that the penetration of the obscurity of the physical world should be their prime concern. They say, "ah, leave that to the scientist," type of thing. And if you go to the scientific world, it's hard for them to contemplate that you're redefining their discipline, the discipline of science, as a spiritual endeavor. So it's really hard to bring these edges together, and that really explains why there is such a hiatus between, such a big gap, between science and spirituality. People have tried to bridge that gap, and they do it with all kinds of theories and ideas. Our idea of bridging that gap is that what bridges it is the very effort of spiritual vision. That's what bridges it because that's the process of science penetrating the obscurity of matter but using our highest spiritual capacity, which is this creative vision that we call "Accelerated Thought."

Eliz:
Something that those who are in the spiritual realm on earth can't quite understand, and those who are in the scientific realm can't quite understand.

We did an interview with Dr. Ralph Abraham, a mathematician and he and Dr. Rupert Sheldrake from England, a biologist and a man named Terrence McKenna have just put out a new book called "Trilog - on the edge of the infinite." And I think all three of them have run into the same lack of understanding that you're talking about in both the scientific and spiritual worlds.

David:
The reason is because we're using lower mind to try to contemplate something that can only be understood by higher mind.

Eliz:
Aha.

David:
And that's why you get all these sophisticated people doing wonderful speculations. But they don't realize that no matter how far you speculate into these things, we're still like rats in a maze. And the only thing that's going to get us out of it is the creativity that's commensurate with higher mind. The way I see it, just to bring us back to the very beginning about why science isn't what it could be and why we do have dangers. We kind of see it as a race between the tortoise and the hare. The hare is dashing ahead to oblivion. You have to remember that the Creator pulled a very interesting trick on us. He created a world in which it's a thousand times easier to destroy than it is to create.

Eliz:
How can that be? What kind of a Creator is that?

David:
Isn't it a strange thing? We don't really think of it. But isn't that a funny trick to pull on us, where it's so much easier to destroy than it is to build? And we know, in principle, how many people, especially today, are, for whatever reasons, full of rancor and hatred. Every day there are more radicals out there who would be very happy to die if they can make a political change by taking a few people with them. And the tools of destruction, every day, are becoming more and more lethal. Unimaginable horrors are being developed in the laboratories. So this hare is really galloping off... I don't think you can say a hare is galloping ...

Eliz:
It's bouncing along...

David:
It's running off ... to oblivion. And then you've got this poor, creative tortoise. Science, you know, is going very fast compared to what it used to. But still, compared to the powers of destruction, the positive aspect of creativity is really limping along like a tortoise. And if this tortoise is not transformed into higher mind or what we call Accelerated Thought, very, very soon, it's not going to beat the hare at the photo finish. And that's really the problem to which we're addressing ourselves. And that's why we feel this tremendous urgency to bring it about. And the problem is resources because, so far, it's hard for us to contemplate any conventional source being able to take this ambition, and this effort, and this possibility, very seriously. It's very, very frustrating. But that's what we're trying to do.

Eliz:
It must be. David, what are your needs right now? What are Project Mind's needs?

David:
In a conventional way we don't. Within the organization, we've had enough resources to develop the things that you need to do to develop an organization. But the time has come where we have to really construct the building, and it has to be a specially designed building, and it has to be in a special place, and all the rest of it. We have to have the building and the means to run it for the first 3 years. Because we believe sincerely that, within 3 years, we will without question be able to establish a new standard of creativity for science. And we're talking about collecting $30 million. That's what we need to assure ourselves of a 3 year chance to make it happen.

Eliz:
There are some foundations these days which are run by the children of the last generation who actually created the money. Have you actually approached such people?

David:
Tentatively. We don't want to cross the bridge earlier than we should because we're trying to convey this idea and get people to respond to it. When you approach a foundation you can do it with a draft proposal, or you can have a preliminary conversation. It's very hard to get people to respond to this thing with understanding. We're still waiting for that to happen. Maybe what we need is an eccentric billionaire. We really don't know. And this is really the challenge until now. To find some formulation or person who can understand it in the way it's formulated now. The institutions that exist do not believe in higher mind, that's not what their agenda calls for. Even the examples of people you raised who are trying to push their thinking right to the edge, the one thing they're not considering is that the level of effort is what's in question. That's the barrier that's stopping us from making the leap that we have to make forward.

In the Bible there's a very interesting analogy for this type of thing. I don't know if you remember. When Esau and Jacob met, Esau was intent on murdering his brother Jacob because of what happened before. I suppose you remember. I imagine most of your listeners have that background. Jacob had accumulated a tremendous amount of wealth by his father-in-law Lavan. However, wealth is the opposite of the abundance that we're talking about generating through this process of Accelerated Thought. Maybe I should explain that wealth is the opposite of abundance. Because wealth is the ability to command goods and services. If somebody needs your money, then they have to become a wage slave in order to produce those goods and services for you. So it is wealth that distinguishes the haves from the have nots. If there were abundance in the sense of the Star Trek Replicator being able to provide anything you want through subatomic synthesis, then it would mean that anybody could have anything when they wanted it. Getting back to our story, what happened was that when Jacob ran into Esau, he took this wealth and he configured it into waves of gifts for his brother. Wave after wave after wave of gifts, he sent to his brother. He wasn't sure he had enough wealth in order to make this simulation of abundance. Remember that waves are an infinite phenomena, there's an infinite amount of waves in the ocean, or in light, or in any other phenomenon. So in creating these waves of simulated abundance, he actually melted his brother's negativity. He wasn't sure it was going to work so, from the beginning, he had a backup plan. He divided his camp into two and he prepared for war. But the bottom line is that he took wealth and created a simulation of abundance by making waves of wealth. But that was only a simulation. We have to do the real thing. We have to penetrate the obscurity, eliminate our ignorance of the physical world around us, and reveal that there is an unlimited abundance of blessings in this world. That the Creator gave us this world, not for us to suffer in, but for us to reveal unlimited possibilities. In the same way as He took clear light and congealed it, crystallized it into physical matter, we as his partners in Creation, by emulating him, in the same way can reveal the infinite, in other words, the "spiritual" in physical matter that now seems to be a place of restriction and darkness.

Eliz:
I'm in total agreement with the idea that the universe is, in fact, a cornucopia. I have always assumed, however, that rather than a technological or scientific breakthrough that would allow us to lose the greed that keeps that from being true for so many people, that we could somehow, psychologically, through faith, change ourselves so that we understood that was true. That's been the thrust of my life at any rate. I've been working on it 30 years, and I've got to tell you I'm a long way from the faith that's necessary.

David:
It's a very sensitive point. If you like that's what the Star of David symbolizes. You'll notice there are two triangles there. One faces upwards in the attitude that you're talking about now. And we call that attitude "minority," "spiritual minority." It's a state of preparation, of self-purification, of working on yourself. But working on yourself is really not what we're here for. It's just a tool. It's just a preparation for that real work of facing downwards. Remember if you want to emulate the Creator you don't look upwards and try to open to a larger reality. Because the Creator doesn't look upwards, he has nothing above Him to look to. When we emulate the Creator we have to look down to that which is less animated than ourselves. However, as we said before, to do that we need help from ourselves because we are really empty vessels and our process, our function, is to channel light from a higher world into this lower one.

And so we need this double attitude. And really you have to open from above, receive from above to give below. But to get this process started it has to be ignited, and it has to be ignited with an effort, an effort of unlimited faith, facing downwards concerning yourself with the inanimate world, inanimate matter, and trying to penetrate it and reveal the cornucopia that you're talking about that's within it. And that's really our prime function - that vision. And the vision, yes, it comes from above, but it will not come from above unless we make ourselves worthy of receiving that inspiration from above, by penetrating the obscurity below in this ultimate act of meditation that we call "Accelerated Thought."

Eliz:
I just love that.
Just to ground this for a moment or two. If someone were listening to this or if this gets published and somebody reads it and says, "I'm that person, I'm a scientist, I've got a doctorate in such-and-such and I've been working on this and this, and I think that if I could take 3 years off" ... 3 years David, how exciting - "and really concentrate myself, I could blast open some of the prison walls that have kept us so long in captivity here." What would you do with a person like that, at this point?

David:
Well, it's a good question. And there are people here and there in the world who try it. But to try it without a net is a very dangerous thing. One of the reasons is that, in living in this world, in this impure world, we do compromise ourselves. Maybe these special people didn't compromise themselves as children, with this connection with the core of their essence, but in living life we're not perfect and we have impurities and we have faults. And when you go from relatively nothing, and you can say that of yourself, and I can say it of myself, I've had decades of heavy duty, spiritual training and, if you learn anything from that, it's that you can't scratch, in this way at least, even the surface of our unlimited spiritual potential. And the reason is I think, that we're looking upwards. But getting back to what we're talking about, the individual, because we have these impurities in ourselves, we go from this relative position of nothing, of being spiritually undeveloped which is really what we are and try to make this ultimate effort, this creative effort and it is possible for these people to mobilize it because they're precisely not compromised in that special place that gives them access to those tremendous sources of faith and will, they're apt to break something. You see what I mean?

Eliz:
Yes!

David:
So, the project we're talking about, part of our technique, is to surround these people with a team of people who are spiritually, psychologically, psychiatrically, medically competent to act as their guides, if you like, a little bit like somebody going on an acid trip has a guide to help them. So, in other words, what we're saying is that Project Mind isn't a place for stimulating creativity. We're taking people who are basically self-starters because of the connection they have with the core of themselves. Our job really is a job of containment in order to compensate for the lacks, the spiritual lacks and the flaws that we all have in ourselves, so that they can be balanced out. In the Jewish ritual framework, it's called a "Minyan." There's a prayer quorum of 10 individuals that is necessary, with the idea that there are 10 fundamental primordial qualities. In any grouping of 10, one balances out the other, so each person fullfils one of those spiritual functions that completes this whole that is needed for spiritual accomplishment.

Eliz:
So it takes more than one individual to be a total, one individual, in your sense, might consist of 15 people.

David:
That's precisely right. One person making the effort, reminds me a little bit about the lightbulb joke. You're talking about one person making the effort and the others acting as his base camp. People who have bonded with him over a preparatory period and who are helping him get through some of the traumatic aspects of going into higher worlds totally unprepared. Because there's no other way to go but unprepared. Now there are people who say you should take people who are spiritually accomplished. But there isn't much chance of finding someone who is a scientist with this unusual capacity and also being spiritually accomplished. And again we have to remind ourselves, that no matter how spiritually accomplished we are, we're never as balanced as we really need to be and we're really never as accomplished as we need to be because our process is a self-absorbed one. It's facing upwards. Where we really all the time should have been facing downwards.

Eliz:
I'd like you just before we end, and I know you're calling from Jerusalem and we really appreciate it greatly and we appreciate your wisdom as well.

David:
That's sweet of you. You know it's 3:30 in the morning here.

Eliz:
I know. I don't know how you're staying awake. I hope it was good coffee or something. I want you to talk just for a moment or two about this facing downwards. For instance, what flashes in my mind when you say that, is something like working with poverty on the one hand, or with the poverty inside myself on the other hand, or with the abysmal politics of the world. I'm not quite sure what you mean.

David:
Well, it's a good analogy. Working with people is a level of working. When you're working to help someone poor yes, in a sense they're beneath you, in the sense that they need your help. You have more power than they do. But remember the inanimate world is a lot further down. There's the animal world and the vegetable world underneath that. The inanimate world is really the most resistant, and that's the world we know least about, And that's what we should be concentrating on because that's where the deepest secrets lie.

Eliz:
So you're actually talking about understanding the energy of what we think of as inanimate, even though of course there's the waves you spoke of in everything.

David:
Well, it's even hard for me to define it, because it's hard to define in advance what you're going to find. All I know is that all contemplative effort, and that's really what science boils down to, involves looking at something very, very hard until you begin to see something new that no one ever saw there before. And in the Project Mind book, if you like, you have the story of Barbara McClintock, recently deceased, who was a plant geneticist and she was a Nobel Prize Laureate. And she wrote very eloquently in her book, and we bring the quotations in the Project Mind book, of how, before she looked into the microscope, she did an act of meditation. And when she looked, she saw differently. The seeing, the quality of the seeing changed. I don't say she was engaged in Accelerated Thought but it was certainly incipient Accelerated Thought. It was a higher level of creativity than is normally engaged.

Eliz:
I want to thank you again for calling all the way from Jerusalem with this wisdom. I hope that there is a response to it and that people will in fact go online with PMF. Why don't you give us that address again?

David:
We have a very nice website. I'm not going to bother you with the address of the website because it's a little bit long. But I'll give you my email address again which is very easy to remember. It's pmf@projectmind.org. Or my personal address - my name is David Devor. The address is devor@projectmind.org. And when they email us, we'll just send them back the website address and they can go and have a look at the many essays there explaining, in a simple way, the process of Accelerated Thought and the purpose of Project Mind. And also they can see the Project Mind book there, it's available for sale directly on the net.

Eliz:
Well David, thank you very much. I hope there's a response to this. I don't know if you went to sleep and woke up but it reminds me of the Hare Krishna people getting up at 3:30 in the morning to sing and dance. At any rate we have appreciated this effort very much. Your words are beautiful and beautifully spoken. And I am entranced with what you're doing and I must say that, although I am no longer online with you, I have really enjoyed every bit of interpenetration that's happened between my world and yours and I want to thank you very much. I hope that your personal life and your visionary life continue to grow and expand and be very bountiful.

David:
Well Elizabeth, thank you very, very much. It's very kind of you to give us this kind of exposure. I hope everything works out for you for the best. To everyone, blessings from Jerusalem.

Eliz:
Thank you very much. Bye-bye.