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Jewish View TV Interview TV Interview by Linda Pollack on "Jewish View" CBS - Channel 4 Buffalo, NY Sept 11, 1997 of David S. Devor, Chairman and Exec. Director PROJECT MIND FOUNDATION, Jerusalem Introduction Hello everyone. This is Linda Pollack welcoming you back once again to "The Jewish View." Life is full of twists and turns and some time ago I had an opportunity to meet a brilliant cousin, not putting him on the spot at all. About 10 or 12 years ago we got to know each other and he's here visiting from Israel and I'm happy to welcome him as a guest. His name is David Devor and he's going to talk about a very interesting subject and part of his life. David, welcome to "The Jewish View." David: Thank you Linda. Linda: I would stop myself from thinking how far should I ramble with this introduction, because to speak about you I could go on and on. What makes you such an interesting person, I think, is what is engaging your mind and what has been engaging your whole being for a number of years. And that's what I've invited you on to talk about. It's something called Project Mind, and you have a foundation called the Project Mind Foundation. Would you just briefly describe for me what is the Project Mind Foundation, before we spend time in depth talking about Project Mind. David: Well, the foundation itself is registered in Israel and we have some 40 founding associates in 11 countries around the world who are committed to its agenda. Linda: Alright. The agenda is what we're going to spend a lot of time on because it's a very interesting thing. But before we move off the foundation, this is a Jewish program and we're going to speak about your project from very Jewish points of view. However, are all the people who have joined in with this kind of thinking necessarily Jewish. David: Although the ideology could be said to stem from Jewish ideology and, more specifically, from Lurianic/Ashlagian Kaballah, at least half of us are from other faiths including Hinduism and Islam and a wide cross-section of Christian faiths. Linda: Ok. Let's get to the real meat of the issue. Project Mind involves a vision, an understanding that is uniquely of the essence of abundance. Would you describe some of the kernels at the heart of Project Mind? David: With pleasure. You could say that our purpose is to bring about a reform in science and, in a sense, bring it under the purview of spirituality or religion. The idea being that the spirit of science which is the spark, the vision, the new thing that comes perhaps from the transcendent - the creative component - can be intensified by a very great degree. Linda: Ok. David: We believe that if that were done we could accelerate the role of science in revealing new possibilities and in this way eliminate lack, illness, and even aging, within a relatively short period of time. Linda: Ok. I'm going to stop you there, because those are huge ideas, just huge ideas. Elimination of lack. How would such a thing come about. David: Well, we're confronted, the mind is confronted, with nature. From the beginning, we've tried to understand the world around us, to understand the processes and take advantage of that knowledge to create tools which, today, we call technology. Science evolved and it was at one time hoped that science would, within a reasonably short time, solve our problems, rid us of illness, and many people believe that, eventually, also aging. There are still many people who believe that's possible. But science has come into difficulties along the way and we live in a world that is becoming very dangerous. Some people have become anti-science and anti-mind, feeling that science is opposed to nature. And because there are more and more rancorous, desperate and suicidal people in the world, perhaps because of the media, because they see that half of the world, or a part of the world lives in tremendous opulence, and science in parallel produces for these people tools of destruction which are becoming more and more horrible, we're on a kind of collision course with matter. The idea here is that if you can accelerate science spectacularly, you could, within a short time, by systematically creating scientific breakthroughs, create the kind of hope that would neutralize negativity. Linda: Ok. The kind of hope, then, that would neutralize negativity would be like a multiplier affect. Are you talking about that kind of Eureka breakthrough in science that gives people hope to go on or are you talking about a whole paradigm shift? David: Well, I'm talking about both. But the hope itself, there's an analogy of it in the Bible, in the Torah. It was in the meeting between Jacob and his brother, Esau, who was intent on murdering Jacob. Jacob took his wealth and formed it into waves of gifts for his brother, and wave after wave came upon Esau until he raised his arms, changed his attitude and embraced his brother Jacob. This is rarely explained. The dynamic of this process is rarely explained. The idea is this, that wealth is really the opposite of abundance. When we're wealthy, we command goods and services that others have to be wage slaves in order to produce and serve us. In this case he took wealth and simulated, with it, abundance. He simulated a life in which there was nothing lacking, no matter what you did new and wonderful things keep on hitting you. We hope that if we can accelerate science according to the formula, which I'll explain, this will happen and people will see that within a short time all physical lack will be eliminated. All illness will be eliminated. No one will want to rock the boat if they're reasonably certain that that's coming down the pike. Linda: Let's say that we have, as humans, within our grasp, the ability to use our intellect to conquer science or to understand science or to, somehow, open up all of the miracles of science to us. Is that what you're proposing could happen? David: Well what we say is that science, as it is now, is thought of as being laboratories, instruments, hypotheses, etc., but that's really just the body of science. The spirit of science, the Neshama, the soul of science is that Eureka spark of intuition, of inspiration, of vision, that a scientist has which enables him to formulate a new hypothesis, to design an experiment and then prove or disprove - verify - the value of the vision that he's had. The problem is that these visions come as sparks, when, in principle the whole body could expand as a mind, and become an instrument of creative vision. That's the theory and this is one of the things we learn from Kabbalah. It's called "Mochin." Linda: Ok. First I'm going to ask you, I know this is rudimentary for you, but I'm going to say "explain to me and the audience what is Kabbalah" before we even get further than that. And that's a difficult short answer but even if you can encapsulate where it fits in the realm of Judaism, that would be helpful. David: There are those who say that Kabbalah is the spiritual component or the secret component of Judaism. There are others who say, simply, that it's the component that explains Judaism, that explains the inner aspects of it. For instance, the study of cosmology is part of Kabbalah, explaining how G-d's light and the world that He created interact. Linda: Alright. And Mochin, the word "Mochin." David: Mochin is a Kabbalistic word that explains or that defines the integration of Creator and created, of light and receptacle. And when this integration occurs, you get an increase in intelligence. The intelligence, in principle, is infinite since we are made in the image of the Creator. And the end realization, in the end of time at the end of the 7th millennium - the final great Shabbat - will be just that. Linda: I'm going to back you up a bit too, because this idea of the great Shabbat has just been injected. And I'm going to give you a chance to drink a little water and then I'm going to ask you, in the simplest of terms, that if people look at Genesis and understand the 7 days of Creation, that, metaphorically (I think what you're trying to describe is a metaphor, and probably means a great deal more to you than a metaphor) of how to translate time into Genesis magnified. Is that simple? Too simple. Well correct me. David: Not at all simple. Linda: I mean is the language simple. The act is not simple at all. David: Well what you begin with is a seed and at the end of the 7000 year period of Jewish history, you hope to come out with the completed fruit. Linda: How do you come up with 7000 years of Jewish history. David: According to Jewish cosmology, and tradition, all of existence is 7000 years, parallel and analogical to the 6 days of Creation. And the last day - the 7th day - is Shabbat. Linda: Ok, let's put a frame around this for the world that's watching. If we were counting today, we would be very close to 5758, is that correct? David: Yes. Linda: So if we were counting today we're almost, close, we'll give people a few years here, a few years there, won't mean a heck of a lot, we're close to 6000. David: We're close to the end of Friday, to Erev Shabbat. Just as the year 1000 was the end of the first millennium, the year 6000 will be the end of the 6th millennium and the beginning of the ultimate Shabbat. Linda: The ultimate Shabbat. If we were to translate it in our daily lives, and those of us who observe Shabbat and those of our friends who observe one day a week in their own religion, mean it for a day of total rest and mean it for a day of study and mean it for a day of refreshment and mean it for something very separate from the rest of their work week. If we were to translate that analogy, then the next 1000 years are meant as refreshment, study, peace. Is this the vision that you're trying to bring forward? David: Well, that is the period of the Messiah, when the Messiah will govern the world - the Mashiach. And what characterizes him, primarily, is that he will be a supreme genius in Torah, also an administrator because he's a king. By the time he arrives, we will have to have transformed this world into a paradise. It is said that the Mashiach comes on a white donkey. Donkey is, on some level, a code word for "matter" in the Torah. Donkey is Chamor and matter is Chomer. And white indicates that there will be no more restriction, that there will be no more limitations in terms of material things when the Messiah comes. Therefore his transportation, his conveyance, is, I believe, the creativity that we will use to transform this world into a place where there is no lack, no illness, no aging, so that all creative work will have been done, and the Shabbat - the final Sabbatical Millennium - will be a time that will be strictly for enlightenment. Linda: I want to ask you another question I know is deeply involved with the thought process and that's Tikkun Olam. Tikkun Olam has a very special meaning. I'd like you to describe what it is and then I'd like to talk a bit about what it means to you specifically. David: Tikkun Olam is one of the definitions of Jewish purpose and mission. Others could be said to be "to reveal the greatness of the Creator in our world," "to make a place for the Creator in this lower world," "to be a light unto the nations" etc. All these things presuppose unlimited abundance. They presuppose that we realize our unlimited creative capacity. Linda: Ok. Now you've taken a pen name that's very interesting for your book - T.Kun. And I'm going to hold up so that the camera will be able to pick up - Project Mind. Now, this is interesting because it's a text in some ways, it's a guide in some ways, why don't you describe what this book means. David: The purpose of the book is to show the very real possibility of intensifying effort. It takes a very special kind of person who's out of step with the world to be in contact with the core of his essence sufficiently to have an unfailing belief in the unlimited possibilities inherent in the human spirit. I've already said we're made in the image of the Creator and this image, this form, this potential has to be realized. The definition of the kind of intensive effort that's required is "V'Ahavta Et HaShem Elokecha B'Chol L'Vavcha, B'Chol Nafshecha U'VChol M'Odecha" - to love the Creator with all your heart, with all your spirit, and with all the means at your disposal. That kind of radical obsession is not usually something that we associate with religion or society. Obsession is generally anathema to society and. yet, to emulate the Creator (which is what we mean by loving Him), by being partners with Him, by keeping our covenant with Him, by being partners in Creation, by revealing the infinite within the restricted, means that we have to realize that infinite potential. Linda: They showed a wonderful shot of your logo on camera for which I'm delighted. I'm not going to leave the title without giving the tag line - as they say in the advertising business. Which is - The Conscious Conquest of Man & Matter Through Accelerated Thought. What we've been talking about, this passion, this Shabbat and this use of intellect is that what makes up Accelerated Thought or is Accelerated Thought something else again? David: The parallel, perhaps, in computer language would be "massive parallel processing." The idea is that with sufficient intensity of contemplation or meditation, if you like, on a problem that has intrigued a person for a lifetime - because from childhood this person has wanted to solve a certain question in nature - that the body can become saturated with the terms of reference of ones question to the degree that one becomes alive inside. The more we become innerly active, the more the outside becomes passive and such a person could be taken for catatonic, could be thought to be in a pathologically extreme state of consciousness and be referred to an institution. And unfortunately this is the type of thing that happens sometimes. So an institution is required where people will be allowed, not only to enter the PaRDeS, which is one of the ways of saying expanding our minds to the point of encompassing a much larger reality, but they'll also be surrounded by a team of spiritually and psychologically and medically competent staff to support them in this very extreme kind of effort that we have not known until now. If with all your heart and all your spirit were something which man had manifested until now, the world would look very different than it does. Linda: Let me suggest back to you that (this is just passing knowledge) that throughout history there have been attempts by, comes to mind cloistered monks, come to mind the Dalai Lama and people who follow him, come to mind very specific groups who try through their spirit with all their heart and all their soul and surely all their might to reach a state that not only opens their intellect but that serves. So attempts, am I not correct, it may not be in the same way, but attempts have been made. David: You raise a very, very good point. It allows us to make the distinction between two kinds of spiritual orientation. One is "bottom up" sometimes called "Mayin Nukvim " or "Mesirat Nefesh." It's also technically called "minority." It's an attitude of supplication, of surrender, of letting go of that which is limited in order to open up to a larger, higher reality - and this is an attitude of receiving. But self-purification, self-annihilation, effacement, is a preparatory act. In the final analysis, even though it's what we generally associate with ritual and this includes Mikva and it includes prayer, in the final analysis it is not much more than spiritual hygiene. It is a preparation for acting as a partner, as an ally with the Creator in order to fulfill our covenant which involves not thinking of our own evolution but thinking of the welfare of others. Thinking of revealing that which is hidden like the "Afikoman" in order to reveal new possibilities and therefore eliminate suffering. Linda: It would suggest that everything is out there to discover, in fact. It would suggest that the human mind has infinite possibilities that need to somehow have an opening to be allowed to reveal these possibilities. Transport me, because a lot of this is science fiction. Transport me, I'm a human being, carry me through this scenario. We have reached the great Shabbat. What happens to me? David: Well, what characterizes the beginning of the Shabbat is we are all relieved of vulnerability, our physical vulnerability, because we will have conquered matter in the sense of having investigated it and having learned everything that we can about it and therefore revealed the infinite possibilities that are inherent in it. We will wake up to the fact that physical matter was just the thin crust of existence, and that reality is really a metaphysical reality. Linda: Am I still a woman? David: I believe you are. Linda: Ok. But, I mean I'm not trying to be coy, but are there men and women in the great Shabbat? Do we continue as the way we know our lives now in some ways? David: As with a normal Shabbat there will be a progression. But the point is, that "A light unto the nations" implies that we are asleep because we're attached to the thin crust of reality and barely aware that there is a metaphysical reality "out there" somewhere. And that when we become aware of it, because our vulnerability has been annulled, we will all become aware of the same metaphysical reality. We will all awaken to the same existence. The differences among ourselves will be in that we will become aware of our own spiritual poverty - where we are. And imagine how poor spiritually we must be if it's going to take a thousand years for our correction under conditions of total abundance, no illness, no aging, no death. Linda: David, I don't know which tack to take next. Because there is so little time and so much to discuss. We've talked about science, and we've spoken just a little about abundance. We've spoken a little bit about intellect. We haven't spoken a great deal about creativity. Do you want to spend a few moments speaking about creativity. David: Well creativity is a very difficult subject to speak of because there are a lot of notions about it. I think the main thing to keep in mind is that creativity, as we know it, manifests as sparks of Eureka. To give you an analogy, imagine trying to run your household appliances on sparks of electricity generated by rubbing the rug. We claim that that is an exact analogy for what's happening today in science. If you could see the globe at night of scientific institutions around the world and see the moments of illumination, you'd see a little spark here, a little spark there. What we're asking is that this creative potential in us be expanded. What we're saying is that its potential is much greater than is normally thought. It's not just a problem solving faculty. In fact, the agenda of the Jewish people and of humanity in general, because we're all made in the image of the Creator, is precisely to join the creative current - top down - in order to reveal unlimited possibilities in this world. Linda: How do you communicate? This is a day-to-day question, this is a simple question. There's going to be people out there who are going to say, I want to know more or, conversely, who is that guy and where do I find him, or I want to tell him he's all wet. How do you communicate with people? David: We have an interesting website. But rather than give a long address perhaps just my email address would be the best because it's short and easy to remember. It's: pmf@usa.net Linda: Ok, well that's up on the screen. You are in touch with people from all over the world. Is that true? David: Yes, up until now, our primary mode of communication has been through the Internet. Linda: Have you met with people in person, many of the people in person? Do they find you when they come to Israel? What's your life like on a daily basis when you're living Project Mind? It's got to be a short answer. David: Well I've met a few. It all boils down to the fact that when you share a mission and purpose and values with someone, they can be on the other side of the world, but it's as if they are sitting right next to you. There's a tremendous intimacy among people who are committed to something as important as this and touches as deeply as this does. Linda: David, the half hour has absolutely flown. Is it an accident that you're in Jerusalem? I'm going to end with that question. David: They say that nothing that happens in this world is an accident. Linda: And you continue to find Jerusalem a city of inspiration? David: I believe that it is, in a sense, the center of Creation. Linda: That's very interesting. You feel that. David: Yes, and I can't imagine creating this project anywhere else. Linda: Well, so we're cousins, and I finally got you on my television program. And I want to thank you for being my guest. It's been a very interesting half hour. I hope I haven't disappointed you by leaving out too much information. Project Mind is worth more than half an hour. And if there's something in closing that you'd like to say, this is your chance because I'm going to take it away in a moment. David: Just thank you very much for the exposure, and, remember, there is absolutely no limit to what is possible to beings who are made in the image of the Creator. Linda: Fascinating. I want to thank you all for joining me on The Jewish View. Should you have questions or comments about this show please feel free to contact me at the Jewish Federation. See you next time on the Jewish View. I'm looking forward to it. Bye-bye.   - end - Return to top